Baseball Toaster Screen Jam
Big Wednesday
2007-05-23 20:25
by Jon Weisman

Man, oh man, oh freakin' man.

I don't know how to express how good tonight's episode of Lost was.

Let me think ...

I gotta say, and I've been feeling this all season, I am so happy for the producers of this show. They have taken so much crap from people questioning whether they can continue delivering a good show - as if they didn't deserve any faith for delivering the good show that made everyone so engrossed in the first place.

No, every episode was not pitch-perfect - there was a run of episodes that I watched passively, rather than on the edge of my seat like the ones over the final weeks this season - but that wasn't at the heart of the criticism. People doubted that the showrunners had a plan; they doubted that they had a clue. The level of impatience directed toward the show was through the roof.

I'm not denying people have a right to feel that way, but this wasn't like Cheers going off the rails as seasons progressed by not being as funny anymore. There was this widespread assumption that Lost had set up this mystery and hadn't given any serious thought about where to take it. People didn't just worry that it wouldn't be satisfying at the end - they also worried that the producers were just ad-libbing it. It amazed me, and yet you'd see it everywhere.

Turns out, Lost still is a masterpiece. It has given us the greatest character-driven mystery-adventure of our time.

Friday Night Lights was my favorite drama this season, and The Sopranos is spellbinding as it heads toward its oxymoronically violent-elegiac conclusion. But there weren't two hours of television this season that were as rip-roaring thrilling as tonight's Lost.

I think I went to cloud nine when Hurley came roaring out of the trees in the VW, because not only was just a perfectly designed rescue scene, but it validated so much of what the producers did this year. So many thought the episode with Hurley and the van was a waste of time. Some people didn't enjoy the episode on its face; some people, like me, did. But most people thought it was just a one-off, a stall tactic from producers who were out to sea, 80 miles offshore. But as it turned out, it was yet another example of the producers laying pipe well in advance of future payoffs - first with Ben's father, then with the rescue.

Perhaps I'm writing too angry when I should just be celebrating, but I just got so tired of defending the show. I just could never wrap my head around the lack of faith.

So before I go too far, let me take a breath. Let me forgive it. Assuming I have the right to forgive - I mean, who the hell am I? We're all human, as Lost reminds us each week, and faith is hard. Maybe I'm right to be worked up, maybe I'm wrong - but in the end, I'm just so damn pleased about how things turned out.

When I saw Jack in the opening scene, I thought we were in the future. I thought the first big twist of the season finale was that instead of a flashback, we were flashing forward. Jack just looked older. I didn't think that he had gotten bloated before the crash and then lost the weight. And with Heroes having flashed forward a few weeks ago, the concept was fresh in my mind. We were getting a glimpse of what might come.

But then, when they went to the island in real time, I decided I was wrong. It was a flashback, and we'd run the usual course.

In those first few minutes on the island, I reflected on how invested in these characters I am. Even the ones who have grown a little idiotic, like Kate, I am so invested in. Their quests, both individually for their souls and collectively for their rescue, feel important to me. The parting scenes between Bernard and Rose or Jack and Sayid could have been out of a '40s war film, but they touched me.

Meanwhile, the alarm in Ben's camp, springing from the capture of Charlie in the Looking Glass, ratcheted up the tension. (I loved Bonnie (Tracy Middendorf, veteran of the first episode of Angel), by the way - she was the sexiest all-business soldier I've seen in a while.) Dominic Monaghan continued his triumphant performance from last week's episode, and Michael Emerson, as much as ever, showed us the wheels turning in his brain like a Formula 1 car.

The ambush attempt, Mikhail and Desmond joining the underwater fray, it was like great speed chess, except a dummy like me could follow it.

Sawyer's anguish over killing his father and his inability to communicate it (or for Kate to drag it out of him) felt so right. And Juliet was a wonderful foil.

And I was completely sold on the almost back-to-back scenes of Juliet kissing Jack and Jack telling Kate he loved her. The love quadrangle.

But the episode headed into orbit with the showdown between Jack and Ben, with Jack not caving in, knowing what was at stake, and then actually feeling like it backfired on him with the apparent deaths of Jin, Bernard and Sayid. I didn't believe for certain they were dead - nothing's too certain on this island - but it was more than plausible. It was hardcore. You could immediately feel Jack's misgivings. His preservation of Ben's life in the aftermath was a little Bondian, but aside from the desire to make Ben witness his failure, I feel that Jack is a little afraid to kill Ben - that keeping Ben alive is almost like punching the numbers in every 108 minutes. You just don't know what you're messing with.

That brings us to the Hurley rescue, which was priceless - punctuated by Sawyer's new nickname for him, "Hero." The killings of Tom and the other two Others were brutal, as they stood in opposition to the three of them at least temporarily preserving Jin, Bernard and Sayid's lives, but Sawyer, who probably wanted to do anything but kill again so soon, had the perfect retort about Tom's surrender: "I didn't believe him." It was no longer time to mess around. I think you're meant to feel a little bit for the Others, who were beginning to question Ben, but there is the aspect of paying for their crimes in this cutthroat world. And they did kidnap Walt, after all. I mean, just from that one scene, so much to think about.

Lost continued to mix in some lighter moments with the high stakes. Beaten-up Ben's almost annoyed introduction of Alex to her mother, Danielle, was a hoot. In the Looking Glass, Charlie's eyes were alive.

Ah, Charlie ...

Charlie was a character some struggled with, but he truly transcended these final two weeks. And again, there was the perfect melding of character and plot development in Charlie's final moments, when he takes down the jamming system, talks to Penelope, learns the unfortunate truth twice over. (Penny doesn't know Naomi, and Mikhail is outside with a grenade.) It was a heartbreaking but fond farewell to yet another hero.

And so we come to the final scenes - Naomi making the call, Locke killing her with a knife and threatening Jack with his life if he doesn't put the phone down. I felt strongly Locke wouldn't be able to kill Jack, but I did think he might shoot the phone out of his hand, and begged Jack to hold it better than Wendell Tyler carrying the ball on a sweep. But instead, the call came through. And though we kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, it wasn't going to.

Flash-forward, and we are led to believe we are looking at a post-rescue Jack. And then a post-rescue Kate. And one is begging the other to go back to the island, insisting - as Ben predicted - that their departure was a mistake.

And a newspaper clipping that shows one tangible mystery to go with the intangible ones.

It's a bold and brilliant gambit. It does what the show does so well - opening up another world. And I just have to conclude by saying, I have every reason to believe the final three seasons of Lost will continue to be a great ride. I cannot wait until February.

Comments (140)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-23 21:05:31
1.   JoeyP
So anyone think "Flash Forward" will be the theme of the last 3 seasons of Lost?

As opposed to the flashbacks of the first 3.

2007-05-23 21:17:41
2.   LatNam
I think so. I mean really, we've seen a lot of everyone's past now, so seeing it the other way would be very interesting. (and add a lot of life to a show, which I personally didn't feel it was lacking anyway)

I really liked tonight's show.

2007-05-23 22:01:47
3.   trainwreck
Jack was listening to my favorite Nirvana song.
2007-05-23 22:04:02
4.   Greg Brock
Jack likes Nirvana
2007-05-23 22:04:21
5.   Greg Brock
I really need to refresh more often.
2007-05-23 22:07:09
6.   trainwreck
That or "Rape Me".
2007-05-23 22:09:45
7.   jtrichey
Just a fantastic episode all the way around. Hugo making a grand entrance, Sawyer getting more personal revenge, goodbye to Charlie in a heroic way, Ben getting some comeuppance, interesting new feature of flash-forward, more Locke/Jack power struggles. Lost to me has clearly re-established itslef as the best show on network TV in the second half of this season. Wow!!

Is there any way that the viewing Jack went to could be anyone other than Sawyer? Kate did say "he will start to wonder where I am", but I think the dead guy has to be Sawyer.

2007-05-23 22:12:58
8.   JoeyP
I was bummed that Charlie died. I thought he and Desmond really had great chemistry in their scenes.

But you know, in the Lost world--you can never be sure if you're actually dead.

Apparently, nothing can kill Mikhail. Harpoons, bullets, magnetic forcefields...he's indestructable. Strange how nothing can kill him, and yet he did lose an eye once.

2007-05-23 22:16:39
9.   JoeyP
8--I think the guy in the coffin was Locke. I think it was for sure one of the people that was on the island, that got rescued and ended up going back to the mainland only to find nothing happy in their lives, and alone. Jack feels guilty, bc Ben/Locke both told him not to leave the island.

I think Jack has survivor's guilt of some sort, and thats why he turns all suicidal/drug addicted in the future.

Something tells me the first 3 season were flashbacks, the last 3 will be flash forwards, and the very last series finale will be Jack/Kate somehow mysteriously returning to the island and not leaving.

2007-05-23 22:54:15
10.   trainwreck
Way to bring the bad people Jack.
2007-05-23 23:01:19
11.   Greg Brock
Sounds like they left some people behind.
2007-05-23 23:04:00
12.   trainwreck
Kate was driving a nice car, she ends up with Hurley lol.
2007-05-23 23:14:02
13.   Greg Brock
Jack implying that his father is still alive is weird. Can't wrap my noodle around that one.
2007-05-23 23:15:25
14.   trainwreck
He's drunk and being obnoxious.
2007-05-23 23:23:13
15.   Greg Brock
14 So he just kept a bunch of his dead father's scrips, three months or six months after he died?

That's certainly some high quality drug seeking scamming. I don't know. Maybe he's dead. Maybe not.

2007-05-23 23:24:20
16.   trainwreck
My friend who is obsessed with the show said that the producers promised his dad was dead.

Producers would never lie ; )

2007-05-23 23:26:42
17.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
The only clue I spotted that it was a flash-forward was that Jack's cell phone (Moto RAZR) seemed to be more recent than any time period after he and Sarah split up and before the flight (which was in mid-2004, recall). I didn't know off the top when the RAZR came out, but I thought it was too current a phone, and was puzzled.

They did a nice slight of hand with the reference Jack made to his father (while pilfering Oxycodone). It could have meant anything.

And they did an excellent job making Desmond's vision come true with suspense, and leaving us on the edge of our seats because it is clear that Naomi and her boat are not connected to Penny, after all!

[How about the Walt cameo? They can't bring him back, full time, since only 30 days have passed and the actor appears to be about a foot taller(!)]

I can't believe we have to wait until January!!!!

2007-05-23 23:27:36
18.   the OZ
This narrative style twist makes me wonder how the writers are going to continue to build suspense when the audience has a look into the future. I found this episode thrilling, but I'm nervous about how the story can progress in a meaningful way through the next 32 episodes knowing that certain things seemed to happen the way they did.
2007-05-23 23:32:11
19.   trainwreck
Actually it was a KRAZR. I know this because I have that exact phone in that color.
2007-05-23 23:32:55
20.   Greg Brock
Any bets on the occupant of the coffin? I'm going with Locke, Ben, or Sawyer.
2007-05-23 23:33:18
21.   Joshua Worley
I'm not ready to accept this as a straight-forward flash-forward yet.
2007-05-23 23:39:25
22.   JoeyP
January 2008 seems like a long time off.
That is the most depressing aspect of this show.
2007-05-23 23:40:40
23.   Jon Weisman
18 - Oh my god.

They just delivered perhaps the best two hours of television this season, and people are still nervous about what the producers will do?

Those guys can't catch a break, I swear.

2007-05-23 23:42:00
24.   the OZ
20 I paid very close attention to the size of the coffin, and would guess that the deceased was a child. The coffin was not very big. If you have TiVo, go back and watch that scene. I'm curious if anyone agrees or disagrees with my observation.
2007-05-23 23:43:30
25.   the OZ
23 I love the show and am more excited by tonight's episode than anything I've seen on TV in a long time. I'm just not used to a TV show pulling a trick like that so I don't know how to feel. Yeah, it's awesome, but I'm still nervous since this is so unfamiliar.
2007-05-23 23:43:43
26.   Greg Brock
Big round of applause, by the way, for Matthew Fox, who pretty much acted his tail off in that episode. He really carried the entire episode. Everybody was great, but Fox was just outstanding.
2007-05-23 23:44:45
27.   Jon Weisman
25 - Man, just enjoy it.
2007-05-23 23:46:07
28.   the OZ
23 and I'm not going to apologize for being nervous.
2007-05-23 23:50:54
29.   JoeyP
My vote for best episode of the season (minus the finale) was the one where Jack operates on Ben, punctures the artery, and helps Kate/Sawyer escape.

Worst would be buried alive, just bc it seemed pointless.

Overall, excellent season.
Hope they bring the entire cast (including Charlie) back for season 4.

2007-05-23 23:52:17
30.   Greg Brock
16 Lindlof and Cuse also said that the explanations were not supernatural. So, unless they're both big proponents of string theory, I'm not sure I believe everything they say.

But yeah, Christian Shepard is most likely dead.

2007-05-23 23:52:25
31.   Inside Baseball
So cool. I felt it was scenes from the future very early on and got really excited. I jumped out of my chair like I would for a gamewinning Dodgers' homerun when Hurley drove in with the van. It was just awesome.
2007-05-23 23:53:27
32.   trainwreck
I vote Sawyer is in the coffin.
2007-05-23 23:55:09
33.   Bob Timmermann
I am looking at the casket right now. It looks like an adult-sized casket to me. The casket spans a width of three folding chairs plus Jack in the middle.

Caskets tend to come in two sizes: regular and small. The small ones are used for infants.

We have a pretty good idea that the funeral is for someone who lives in South L.A. The likeliest option for that would be if Walt ended up back there, but he never lived in Southern California I believe.

And Walt wasn't all that short as we could see from his appearance with Locke.

A typical casket, from sources I saw online, is seven feet long.

There are caskets for infants which range in length from 18" to 54". I've been to funerals for people who were pretty short and they ended up with the regular 7 foot casket.

2007-05-23 23:55:31
34.   the OZ
I didn't realize it was a future-flash until I wondered, near the end, about why Jack had a bunch of maps of the South Pacific strewn across his floor.

Was Walt known to have some kind of special ability during season 1? I vaguely remember something about that but can't remember.

2007-05-23 23:58:53
35.   Greg Brock
34 Walt could make birds fly into windows. There was/is something "special" about him.
2007-05-23 23:59:33
36.   Bob Timmermann
Walt did things like:
1) burn up the first raft
2) wish up things from his imagination

Other than that, he seemed fine.

2007-05-24 00:04:22
37.   Inside Baseball
9 If I had to guess, I'd bet on this theory.

Best part is feeling confident that all the the loose-ends will be tied at some point in a brilliant way.

2007-05-24 00:07:38
38.   Jon Weisman
I'm writing my post up above and saving it in publish form as I go.
2007-05-24 00:10:20
39.   Greg Brock
I need to learn how to snap somebody's neck with my legs.

Just seems like the type of thing I ought to know.

Sayid is so badass.

2007-05-24 00:10:23
40.   Telemachos
I have the odd feeling Ben was in the coffin.

Someone on another forum pointed out that technically, in this episode at least, the island portions were the "flashbacks"... there wasn't necessarily a flashforward. That might be just being pedantic, but I kinda like the concept.

As to knowing what "happens"... there are two important points to make:

- knowing how something ends isn't necessarily a killer.... finding out HOW you get there is the fun part. (Babylon 5 showed the end of its show in the very first episode... but by the time you finally got to how it all happened, it had a very different meaning than when you first saw it).


- who's to say this future is set? It might be "a" future, or even an alternate reality or two: the fact that Naomi claimed Oceanic 815 went down in the ocean, for example. Or even Desmond's "visions" (which now might have to be considered "memories").

Great stuff.

2007-05-24 00:17:31
41.   Bob Timmermann
I think Naomi told everyone that Oceanic 815 went down because she wanted to cause trouble. She must not have been a nice person.

And a final add about the casket.
They always look smaller than you think. Just like if you go to a cemetery and see the hole.

It's a matter of perspective.

2007-05-24 00:22:56
42.   the OZ
I assumed the casket was small because of the overhead shot with Jack standing in front of it. Thinking about that shot again, it was taken with a very short lens which made Jack look taller from that particular angle, therfore making the casket look smaller by comparison. So Bob's right and it's normal size.

I Wikipedia'd the Walt character, and he is implied to have special powers of some kind. His stepdad was afriad of him (which is one reason he gave up custody), Locke thought he had some nebulous "potential", and Ben remarked that the Others got "more than they bargained for" with Walt.

I expect we'll see much more of Walt in season 4 and beyond.

2007-05-24 01:26:06
43.   Bob Timmermann
I did enjoy the finale, but it doesn't seem to resonate with me much. I think the East Coasters kept getting my hopes up for a mind-altering event.

This season's ending of "Lost" is not going to stick with me as much as the ending of "The Office."

2007-05-24 03:41:58
44.   Benaiah
Fantastic episode. One thing that gave me pause: why did Locke kill Naomi? He didn't know who she was, and it was an insanely violent way to prevent the phone call from going through. Locke is the best character because he is so apedung crazy.
2007-05-24 06:32:44
45.   Penarol1916
41. That wouldn't explain why Locke's dad said the same thing about the flight and assumed that they were in hell. As for the episode, outside of my growing dislike for Kate and Jack, very enjoyable.
2007-05-24 07:30:20
46.   Penarol1916
One thing that is troubling for me about this episode (outside of Jack acting like his father was still alive, which I'll just chalk up to drunken obnoxiousness). After Mikhail set off the grenade, why did Charlie close the door with himself in inside, why not close it from the other side of the door and live and swim out with Desmond? Is it because he believed he had to die for Claire to get on the helicopter?
2007-05-24 07:51:15
47.   Greg Brock
46 Ya hafta die, Charlie.

I don't think it was worth the risk, for him, to try and make it out alive. Whatever it takes for Claire to get off the island. He didn't want to take any chances. At least, that's how I read it.

I wish Charlie would have been this great the entire series. But I guess this was his journey. Maybe he had to be what he was in order to become the hero.

2007-05-24 07:53:41
48.   Penarol1916
47. I didn't dislike him earlier in the series like a lot of people, I just thought that he wasn't all that interesting a character, but I think he was really great every episode beginning when Desmond told him he was going to die.
2007-05-24 07:59:44
49.   jtrichey
I don't think it is Locke in the casket because I don't think Locke has any intention of ever leaving that island. He and Rose are the two people with very legitimate reasons to not leave the island, and like Rousseau, I think there will be a few that choose to stay on the island when the rescue comes.

As for Locke and Naomi, we don't know what Locke found out between his vision of Walt (was that really "Jacob") and when he killed Naomi. He could have found out alot of info about what was going on with Naomi's ship. (Though I was saying to myself, if you don't want Jack to make that call Locke, explain to him the reasons)

If the flash forwards are going to be the norm it will be very interesting to see how they handle them. Any future deaths on the island won't have a flash forward obviously. And the brilliant bit to me is that with Jack gone completely off the deep end, this show has a decidedly not-happy ending.

2007-05-24 08:02:37
50.   jtrichey
So who died in that episode? Charlie and at least 11 others including eye patch and Tom (Mr Friendly)? Oh and Naomi. Anyone else?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-24 08:04:11
51.   the OZ
46 My understanding was that Charlie locked himself inside to save Desmond, who was rushing into the comm room to speak with Penny. Had Charlie not shut the door, the whole moon pool would have flooded and Desmond and Charlie would both die. By sealing himself (and the onrushing seawater) inside the comm room, Charlie saved Desmond's life in a really heroic way.
2007-05-24 08:10:29
52.   the OZ
50 Body count based on my best recollection:

7 Others got dynamited at the beach
3 Others were run over, neck-snapped, or shot, including Tom
2 women at the underwater station were shot
1 Mikhail blew himself up with a grenade (unless he's invincible)
1 Charlie drowned
1 Naomi was killed by a thrown knife
(1) unknown Lostie dies in the future

So, 15 people died not counting the person in the casket? Is that right?

2007-05-24 08:18:36
53.   Mike J
Several people have expressed disappointment at the "depressing future". I'm quite positive that they're not going to pull a "Heroes" and attempt to change the future, but I do think that what we saw last night wasn't "the end." Meaning, yes, that happens, but there may well be a good 40 episodes after that. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a helicopter arrives in episode one next season and carts at least half the islanders home. The next 47 episodes would be the aftermath, trying to get back/solve the mystery.
2007-05-24 08:21:53
54.   Mike J
Further, wouldn't it be ironic if the next 48 episodes consist of the castaways on the mainland having flashbacks to the island?
2007-05-24 08:32:27
55.   Penarol1916
51. But why couldn't Charlie have closed the door from the other side and he and Desmond could have jumped into the pool and swam up into the boat? The closest thing to rationale explanation is Charlie felt he had to die for the helicopter to come.

54. I was thinking something along those lines, especially if, as the producers said this really is a game changer. The rest of the show consists of current day characters having flashbacks to the island after this happened and their attempts to get back to the island and deal with the aftermath. If this is the case, I hope they do it better than "The Nine."

2007-05-24 08:37:35
56.   Mike J
55. I watched the first episode of The Nine and thought it was promising. About 3/4 the way through the second or third episode, something stupid happened (I can't remember what) and I decided this show had no future and was going to get cancelled so I stopped watching. I didn't want to have another "Invasion" on my hands. I really enjoyed that one and was pissed when it didn't get picked up for a second season.
2007-05-24 08:47:13
57.   Kevin Lewis
My head is reeling with ideas of what might be going on, but I just want to enjoy it. My take on the coffin is that it was Ben. He was a bit smaller, and no one was at the wake (he had no family). I can't imagine a child passing away and having no one come to the wake. My two quick theories would be that everyone came back and became depressed about being away from the island...or that somehow they are connected to the island and need it for survival, so it is possible that the survivors are dying off on the main land. Either way it was a fantastic episode. I imagine we will go back to the island for the next three seasons, but I am intrigued by the idea of seeing where everyone went with their lives after the rescue and then having the flash backs be the events played out on the island.

Oh, I know Charlie felt like he had to die for it all to happen, but why didn't he just swim out the hole after it filled up? Couldn't let that one go.

2007-05-24 09:10:13
58.   kngoworld
Jack is on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere for months and finds the time to occasionally shave/trim. He gets back home to the luxury of hot water, clean razors and shaving cream but decides to grow a beard! What gives?

I loved this episode!

2007-05-24 09:27:00
59.   Jon Weisman
Given that everyone is someone on Lost, who do you think the woman pulled out of the flaming car is? Maybe Juliet? Or Juliet's sister, since she had a son?

As for the coffin, after years of watching Six Feet Under, I never got the sense that coffin size was that big an issue.

Initially I thought it was Sawyer, but then I thought the man Kate referred to was Sawyer. But somehow, I still saw Kate ending up with either Jack or neither of them. I didn't think Kate would be with Sawyer in the end.

I don't know - good mysteries.

I think the U.S. is the new island that Jack will want to get off of. He needs rescue off the island. He and whoever will join him will go back to the old island and try to fix themselves and solve Jacob. And wherever they are, we'll see flashes to where they are not.

And by the way ... poor Claire.

2007-05-24 09:35:40
60.   Kevin Lewis
Very good point about the woman in the hospital.
2007-05-24 09:39:19
61.   Jon Weisman
I also assume/hope we'll see Michael return to the show next year.
2007-05-24 09:44:17
62.   Mike J
61. It'd be an easy way to explain Walt aging 3 years in what should be 90 days. Simply jump forward 3 years, Jack can turn into a drunk, and now there's tons of room for new flashbacks.
2007-05-24 09:48:23
63.   Inside Baseball
59 Good call on Juliet's sister. I thought Kate maybe was speaking about a parole officer or something, she is still a fugitive after all.

One thing that has crossed my mind this morning was the scene from last year's season finale where man who looked an awful lot like Jack with a beard reacted to the signal of the electromagnetic charge. This is admittedly far-fetched, and I know he wasn't speaking English, but I wonder if there's a chance that was a flash forward of Jack trying to get back on the island.

2007-05-24 09:50:38
64.   Jon Weisman
63 - That would also allow us to time-stamp the flash-forwards. I think they said the kid was eight years old - which might be too far in the future.

If you think about it, the show is going off the air in 2010, six years after the crash. For what that's worth.

2007-05-24 09:58:51
65.   kngoworld
I believe the image of Walt was Jacob, who is trying to convince Locke to stop the rescue.
2007-05-24 09:59:09
66.   Inside Baseball
64 - I thought they said he was 4 years old which could work. Even if he's older, I don't believe we were ever told exactly how long Juliet was on the island before the crash.
2007-05-24 09:59:35
67.   Bob Timmermann
Presumably Kate in the future is not a fugitive. So, several state governors and the president gave her pardons.
2007-05-24 10:01:25
68.   Jon Weisman
65 - Yeah, I figure Jacob and/or the island - which I tend to believe now are one and the same - is involved in all those apparitions, such as Kate's horse and Jack's father.

66 - I think they said at once point that Juliet had been on the island for three years, which I may be misremembering. Also, they showed that footage of her sister and nephew being alive - how old was the kid then?

2007-05-24 10:01:30
69.   Bob Timmermann
Jack's newspaper clipping:
2007-05-24 10:01:48
70.   Jon Weisman
67 - And an Oceanic gold pass.
2007-05-24 10:02:42
71.   Bob Timmermann
Juliet's sister, whom I just refer to as a Calamity Jane, was playing with a child old enough to walk and run around I believe.
2007-05-24 10:03:00
72.   Jon Weisman
69 - How did they get such a high-res screen grab?
2007-05-24 10:06:19
73.   kngoworld
The wonders of 1080 HDTV.
2007-05-24 10:20:50
74.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
69 Am I the only person whose looking at that and seeing "The body of J_____ _antham of New York was found shortly after 4 am"?
2007-05-24 10:28:30
75.   Bob Timmermann
Keeping with the Locke/Rousseau theme, the name is likely Jeremy Bentham.

2007-05-24 10:29:18
76.   Bob Timmermann
Hmm, except now I see the "a" so, it's not Bentham.
2007-05-24 10:30:32
77.   Jon Weisman
Or maybe Claire and Aaron were in the car?
2007-05-24 10:43:11
78.   Inside Baseball
I just read the funeral parlor Jack visits is named "Hoffs/Drawlar", which is an anagram of "flash forward." Bob, I'm shocked you didn't catch that. ;)
But how cool is that?
2007-05-24 10:45:17
79.   Inside Baseball
77 The woman in the hospital bed didn't look like Claire to me but you never know.
2007-05-24 10:50:31
80.   Jon Weisman
79 - I don't have an image of her in my mind. What do you recall?
2007-05-24 10:53:32
81.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
77 The boy seems to recognize Jack, but that can be explained by the fact that Jack pulled him from the car the night before.

Plus, Aaron is about three months old on the Island, and the saved boy is reported as being 8 years old. That would mean that close to 8 years had passed. That's not specifically contridicted by anything, it just seems inconsistent.

I'm going to have to watch it again, since I thought for sure they mentioned the name of the woman he pulled out of the car.

2007-05-24 11:21:18
82.   Bob Timmermann
The woman rescued from the car crash is described as "Mrs. Arlen." The spelling is from the closed captions.

Jack's car by LAX has an August registration tag, but no year.

2007-05-24 11:21:55
83.   kngoworld
A close up picture of the medical chart that Jack does not want to let go of might have a name on it.
2007-05-24 11:26:34
84.   the OZ
Looking closely at the two images of the newspaper clipping in Photoshop and at greater contrast, here's what I've got. Guessed letters are in parenthesis:

"The body of J____ _antham of
New York was ______ shortly after 4
a.m. in the _______ of Grand

____ ________ ____ ___man at The
Th____ _____ _____ loud
_____ _______ _______ _(ant)ham's loft,
______ _____ ______ ______ _______
_____ ____ ______ (cov)ered the
______ ____(from) a beam in the
_____ ______"

I suspect that whoever this guy is, he hanged himself, which did not sit well with Jack.

2007-05-24 11:27:42
85.   Mark T.R. Donohue
Liked it, didn't love it. I understand that it's not a valid comparison because the "Lost" showrunners have an exit strategy, but I still feel like I'm watching the "X-Files" all over again. They don't explain anything, they don't explain anything, they STILL don't explain anything, and then it ends. That would be a bummer.

My interpretation was that "Walt"/Jacob/crazy smoke monster gave Locke very explicit instructions about killing Naomi and not telling Jack any more than he did. Ben's behavior suggests to me that one must give themselves to the island freely, which explains why both Ben and Locke are reluctant to try and use their privileged information to bring others to their side.

It felt like the flash-forward was no more than a year or so ahead of present-day time. That said, I was snookered too -- I didn't guess until the end. Some of you are smarter than me. But I watched the key scenes of the episode again after the first viewing and that is what it seemed like to me. Some details like Jack's ex-wife still being listed as his emergency contact seem to support this.

I don't think Charlie needed to die based on the situation -- it really played like he had tons of time to walk out, slam the door closed, and seal it from the other side -- but in his own way that was him giving himself to the island. Only by following Desmond's vision to the letter could he guarantee Claire and Aaron's rescue.

I was a little thrown by the body count. All those fatalities, and hardly any of them were significant characters, except for Charlie, who we've been told was going to die for months. But at least it supports my notion of Ben hanging his current Others out to dry in order to replace them with the Oceanic survivors (which is why he can't allow them to leave, as he tersely informed Alex). But what of Nestor Carbonell, who is apparently immortal, and Mikhail, who is apparently invulnerable?

Desmond's visions support that a rescue is immediate. But a few survivors are going to stay behind, I suspect.

2007-05-24 11:32:37
86.   Bob Timmermann
The woman in the car accident is referred to as "Mrs. Arlen" at least twice. When Jack leaves the pharmacy after stealing oxycodone, he stammers that he was looking for "the Arlen chart." And then Dr. Hamilton, the new boss, also calls the woman "Mrs. Arlen."
2007-05-24 11:38:22
87.   Linkmeister
Holy smokes. I was stunned last night, and I remain so this morning.

My very brief thoughts here:

Jon and the rest of you have enunciated more, but one thing I noticed that may or may not have been mentioned is what appeared to be the absolute loathing Kate had in her voice when she asked Jack why he thought she'd attend the funeral. So who is/will be so hated among the group that not one of them would show up?

2007-05-24 11:39:10
88.   mintxcore
I also remember Juliet saying she was on the island for three years. To me, it definitely seems to add up having Jack save Juliet's sister. If the boy was 3 or 4 years old in 2004, Jack's flashfoward could have definitely taken place in 2008 or 09

Another thing that I keep thinking about is how this "rescue" that appeared to be in motion might not actually get them off the island. From the flashforward, we all know they get off the island, but did we ever question that? My guess is that this rescue mission isnt going to work out as we expect and they are going to get rescued another way.

I definitely enjoyed this episode but I think knowing that there is a finite number of episodes remaining helped.

2007-05-24 11:44:31
89.   Jon Weisman
87 - Well, we've speculated a lot about that, but now there are signs that the dead person might not be a current cast member.

88 - I think there's as much possibility that the rescue is immediate as there is that it won't be.

2007-05-24 11:49:33
90.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
So, since we see "Mr. Arlen", presumably, in the waiting room with the boy Jack saved, we still don't know a thing about who the Mrs. Arlen is.

- It could be Claire, with the boy being Aaron, and the flash-forward being 8 years in the future

- It could be Juliette, perhaps having adopted her sister's son and remarried to Mr. Arlen

- It could be Juliette's sister, now married or with partner

- It could be a character we have yet to meet

Ah, the many mysteries unfolding!

2007-05-24 12:01:54
91.   Bob Timmermann
Put the DVR and HDTV to good work again, the woman in the hospital bed, Mrs. Arlen, does not look to be Robin Weigert, the actress who plays Juliet's sister. In the waiting room, the boy, who is presumably the one Jack saved is sitting next to a woman reading a magazine and there is a man who looks to be sleeping or just tired who could be his father. But he is not anyone I recognize from the series.
2007-05-24 12:06:53
92.   Inside Baseball
79 Not much, but they certainly showed her face when she was in the hospital bed. Have to rewatch.

87 What about Michael being the mystery dead person? He certainly didn't leave any good feelings from those he betrayed to leave. Maybe his guilt finally overwhelmed him and he hung himself.

2007-05-24 12:09:16
93.   Inside Baseball
The first point in 92 was in reference to 80 not 79.
2007-05-24 12:16:48
94.   Curtis Lowe
I still don't know how I feel about a rundown Jack. Why did Jack reference his dead father as being more drunk than him in the up stairs offices. Since Desmond has changed the future for Charlie before will he be able to change this bleak future for Jack? Will Hiro be able to kill the smoke monster?
2007-05-24 12:23:19
95.   Penarol1916
If you want a real laugh go to the Washington Post discussion of the show. They are obsessed with the theories of multiple timelines and multiple universes. If that is really case, then I'll be pretty mad.
2007-05-24 12:31:55
96.   Curtis Lowe
95 - I don't agree in the multiple univserse theory but do believe the futre is up for grabs. Since Desmond has flashes of his future and was able to prolong Charlie's life until Charlie gave up I think Desmond will have a big role in the rest of the survivors futures.

I remember Jack saying in the funeral parlor that the dead man was neither friend or relative which makes me think he could have been Sawyer or as someone mentioned earlier in the thread Micheal.

2007-05-24 12:33:58
97.   Penarol1916
96. Yeah, one of the theories in the Post is that he is actually visiting an alternate universe version of himself.
2007-05-24 12:35:37
98.   the OZ
94 Will Future Dwight warn Future Jack about the poinsoned coffee?

Any chance the dead guy is Jacob?

2007-05-24 12:35:46
99.   Curtis Lowe
97 - Whoa, that just blew my mind...
2007-05-24 12:46:42
100.   Linkmeister
Penarol, you got a link to the Post discussion?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-24 12:49:36
101.   Inside Baseball
90 Add the woman Sawyer conned and left pregnant to the list of possible identities for Mrs. Arlen.
2007-05-24 12:51:10
102.   Curtis Lowe
Before the island Jack was relativly stable. On the island he becomes a leader. After the island he is LOST and spiraling out of control.

Locke,Sawyer,Kate,Charlie, Claire,Sun,Jin and Hurley were all greatly troubled before the island. While on the island they seem to have set themselves right and made peace with their inner demons.

Kind of a weird turn around for Jack turning his life after the island into as miserable an existance as the other survivors lives were before the island.

2007-05-24 12:57:44
103.   Penarol1916
100. The tinyurl I got doesn't seem to be working, I'll just say to go the the, click on the link to live discussions about halfway down and pick the one about Lost. There is also a link in those discussions to the blog analysis that they did.
2007-05-24 13:07:01
104.   Linkmeister
Okay, thanks. Here's the "Lost" blog from the WaPo, with a link to the Live Chat embedded within that entry:

We'll see if that works any better.

2007-05-24 13:17:09
105.   Penarol1916
104. How come yours worked, when I put the link into tinyurl it came out and was an error when pasted to the top. I feel so incompetent.
2007-05-24 13:37:36
106.   Bob Timmermann
This was the page in the LA Times Jack was looking at on the plane with the exception that the part ripped out was obviously replaced with their own story.

2007-05-24 13:49:56
107.   Inside Baseball
106 - I'm a little disappointed the winning Lotto numbers weren't 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42. ;)
2007-05-24 13:56:19
108.   Bob Timmermann
I also noticed when watching the episode again (flipping to relevant parts) that Charlie, as he is about to drown writes on his hand

NOT PENNY'S BOAT and then a line underneath it.

Let this be a lesson to all of you that just because one is facing imminent death that there is any reason for not respecting punctuation.

2007-05-24 13:58:54
109.   Linkmeister
105 Um, my right-click works better than yours?

Beats the heck out of me.

2007-05-24 15:57:28
110.   Marty
I want to know more about Ben and Russo's story. All women impregnated on the island die, so Russo got pregnant with Alex off the island. If Ben is really the father, they met somewhere off the island. I wonder if they pursue that tack in the next season.
2007-05-24 16:06:58
111.   Jon Weisman
110 - Yeah, that has to come up.

I think it happened at Sandals Jamaica.

2007-05-24 16:18:47
112.   Marty
111 Ooh. All inclusive.
2007-05-24 16:41:43
113.   Ladderkite
An odd thing that sticks with me is how readily accessible Penelope was to the looking glass transmission. Why did she pop up on there when the transmission jamming stopped? Does she just sit there in front of that camera all day everyday? Why was that the go-to?
2007-05-24 16:52:44
114.   Jon Weisman
113 - Could be as simple as she heard an alert beep on her computer and came running.
2007-05-24 16:54:51
115.   Ladderkite
If it were that simple, the question that hangs is why did her computer beep?
2007-05-24 16:59:50
116.   Linkmeister
C'mon, Ladderkite, Google Alerts are everywhere. ;)
2007-05-24 17:00:15
117.   Ladderkite
And if she were actively searching for Desmond, and her computer beep was a response to a signal being discovered in a region that she was canvasing, then why would she be so surprised at Charlie stating that they were on an island? If she was canvasing the south pacific, an island wouldn't be a far fetched place for them to be.

I think Penelope's answers might lie in some connection between her family companies and Dharma.

2007-05-24 17:02:29
118.   Marty
So maybe Penelope's father is behind Naomi's ship.
2007-05-24 17:04:38
119.   Ladderkite
118 - Something needs to account for the picture in her book, right?
2007-05-24 17:06:43
120.   Jon Weisman
117 - I might have to watch the scene again, but I think you're looking for logic flaws where there aren't any. To me, she just appeared excited that she had made any contact - amid struggling with the shaky, staticky reception she was getting.
2007-05-24 17:07:00
121.   Jon Weisman
118 - Yes, that theory has been floated and has credibility.
2007-05-24 18:17:41
122.   Joshua Worley
Wait, February? I thought it came back in January ... it only comes back in February?

tooo looong!

I liked it even more a day after watching it ... I couldn't stop thinking about how messed up Jack was in the future.

2007-05-24 18:32:19
123.   Joshua Worley
Charlie was a character some struggled with, but he truly transcended these final two weeks. And again, there was the perfect melding of character and plot development in Charlie's final moments, when he takes down the jamming system, talks to Penelope, learns the unfortunate truth twice over. (Penny doesn't know Naomi, and Mikhail is outside with a grenade.) It was a heartbreaking but fond farewell to yet another hero.

I always liked Charlie, even when he was a jerk. I could never understand all the dislike thrown his way. He was flawed, so flawed, but he always managed to get himself pointed back in the right direction. Frankly I can't believe he's dead. I'm in denial about it, I guess. Hey, if Desmond and Locke and Eko can survive the hatch kerploding then Charlie can survive, um, his lungs filling with water .... okay, he's dead. Sigh. I'm not mad at the writers for killing him though; for a show like this to truly resonate some characters do need to die or otherwise have "endings" that aren't what the audience would want for them.

Perhaps I'm writing too angry when I should just be celebrating, but I just got so tired of defending the show. I just could never wrap my head around the lack of faith.

I can't either. I am baffled and annoyed by the comparisons to the X-files I see people make a lot. Just because one show burned the audience why assume another one will? Lost may have had a few wayward moments ( though I actually don't think it has ) but it's done nothing like the X-files started to do in the later years. Why let fear ruin a great show? Why decide beforehand that the final 48 episodes aren't going to resolve the major mysteries and story arcs?

2007-05-24 18:51:43
124.   Joshua Worley
Flash-forward, and we are led to believe we are looking at a post-rescue Jack. And then a post-rescue Kate. And one is begging the other to go back to the island, insisting - as Ben predicted - that their departure was a mistake.

This is such a heartbreaking scene, because we see in such a clear way that Jack has lost his soul to meaninglessness and despair.

I remember making the obvious remark during one of the middle flash-jacks that Jack was nuts. And it's clear why. He is a person that needs to find his purpose in something bigger than himself, something that challenges his own will and self to the limit: on the island he had that; back in the US he does not. He is reduced to attempting to go back to his old void-filler, fixing impossible back injuries, such as in his pathetic attempt to poach the other doctor's patient.

It's like being the World Series MVP in your rookie year and then being on a last-place team for the rest of your career. Maybe it's even like retirement for a lot of athletes. That feeling of being a part of Great Events is just gone, and nothing can replace it. This reminds me of Ben, too, because he seems to relish so much the mental challenge of "administering" the island.

Kate was closest to Jack, of anyone on the island. She was always the closest to him, knew him best, of anyone during those great events, so of course he reaches out to her. In a way they make the perfect tragic couple ... she's always running, but looking behind her, trying to escape something, while he's always running, looking ahead of him, looking for the next challenge. They're not the kind of people who could ever settle down and be happy.

2007-05-24 18:54:35
125.   jtrichey
I think there is only about a 2% chance that Ben is really Alex' father. Rousseau came to the island nearly ready to pop, much like Claire, I believe. Alex was born 2 or 3 days after Rousseau started the SOS transmission, so probably Rousseau was at least 6 months when she got to the island.
2007-05-24 23:01:21
126.   underdog
Well, I couldn't watch the episode until tonight so I stayed away from here 'til now. Great discussion, thanks Jon and all. I can't add much except I agree it was a fantastic episode, it really all came together so well, so compelling. I too didn't get that those were flashforwards for Jack until late into it, and was sort of annoyed at first - "why are we seeing all this Jack moping around and drunk and depressed? we get it!" - but then I started to sniff out that they were up to something. This makes next season more interesting, if that's the direction they go. I was definitely over the flashbacks, that's for sure.

I did find Charlie's death a little forced - though it was partially because he himself was forcing it, to fulfill his destiny, but it seemed entirely unnecessary. 51 is a great explanation for it and yet I still didn't buy it.

Other than that, though, I thought it was fantastic.

Don't know if this makes me disturbed in some way, but I was kind of glad to see Jack beat the snot out of Ben.

We're now slowly learning why Ben is so controlling and bent on keeping them from leaving... creepy.

I, too, was absolutely delighted by Hurley's rescue. That was brilliant.

I figured they didn't actually shoot Sayid and company but that part felt a little hard to believe. Not that I wasn't relieved, of course, and sometimes you have to just give the people a bit of a break from all the death.

My only real problem is the idea of waiting til 2008 to continue. That's as sadistic as any of Ben's plans! ;-)

2007-05-24 23:02:42
127.   underdog
By the way, the theories that float out there (and will increase no doubt in the long interim between seasons) are one of the reasons I love the show. That it creates a place for all of that.
2007-05-25 00:04:23
128.   dan reines
As long as we're throwing out guesses...

I think it's ben in the casket. I know there's no reason to think that yet, but they've teased us on more than one occasion with the idea that Ben may not be totally evil. The whole "We're the good guys" thing, the sympathetic childhood, the various moments of vulnerability -- the spinal cancer, the concern about keeping his people from turning against him, the scene with Jacob, and now the fact that he was apparently right about Naomi being not what she appears. I'm not saying he's a sympathetic character -- yet. But they're laying the groundwork if they want to go in that direction.

Ben in the casket would also explain why no one else showed, why Sawyer is (apparently) still alive and living with Kate. I won't begin to guess at how the story would have to unfold for this to be the case -- I'll let the Lost writers write Lost. I'm just saying -- if we're guessing who's in the box, and we're assuming it's someone we know, then I'm going with Henry.

2007-05-25 00:06:23
129.   dan reines
Henry? I mean Ben. Or Benry. You know who I mean.
2007-05-25 00:15:32
130.   Telemachos
I don't find LOST to be similar to the X-FILES at all, in terms of collapsing under its own clever mythos. The X-FILES was always a (then) standard one-hour non-arc drama, that usually wrapped things in and despite tons of references to hidden secrets, never really resolved anything.

LOST has actually answered quite a lot of questions, very definitively. Now, the answers may not be expected, and may lead to more questions, but they're still answers.

ALIAS is a good example of a J.J. Abrams show that derailed off the tracks and ditched its mythology only to desperately try to tie it all back together. LOST has already shown that Cuse/Lindelof have learned from JJ's mistakes.

2007-05-25 10:10:52
131.   underdog
128 I just can't picture a future where Jack gets that upset about the death of Ben.

But, hey, if the show eventually takes us there, then props to them. Maybe they'll eventually become buddies. I just can't picture it.

2007-05-25 10:41:50
132.   Tim B
131 If it was Ben in the coffin, Jack was probably upset because Ben was probably the last person alive who knew how to get back on the island. Death of Ben, death of hope.
2007-05-25 11:50:39
133.   underdog
Hmmm, good point. Perhaps. I guess we'll see. Over the next 2-3 years ((sigh))
2007-05-25 15:43:36
134.   jtrichey
From the little clue we have of the newspaper clipping about J___ ___anthem where does that take us? Sawyer's real name is James, but have we ever heard his real last name? J for James or John (Locke) but anyone else, we either haven't met them yet or there is a name change/alias somewhere in there.

I guess there is Jin, and now Jacob as well.

2007-05-26 12:28:28
135.   JoeyP
Whats the word on Lost going into syndication?

It didnt take long for 24 to do it.
Will Lost follow the same path?

2007-05-27 00:13:30
136.   aqc
I know some have mentioned this, but the references to Jack's father being alive really bugged me. The prescription seems plausible: he's trying to get them any way he can, but the "Call my dad down here..." remark was not something anyone would actually say. That new chief of surgery guy wouldn't even get it. Maybe they're pulling an "It's a Wonderful Life" with a this-is-what-could-happen-if sort of scenario. I don't know, but I'm looking forward to finding out.
2007-05-27 20:55:12
137.   Shaun P
As someone above mentioned, I think the body in the casket is Michael.

Even granting that Naomi was lying about Flight 815 being found, with bodies - BTW: how did they make the DNA and/or dental records match up? - he and Walt's leaving the island never made sense to me. They go, get picked up, and go back home. How does he answer the inevitable questions? He and his son are the sole survivors of the crash, and somehow managed to find this little boat, which was fueled up, and they knew where to go to get into the shipping lanes to be rescued?

At the end, Jack said to Kate that he was tried of lying. Lying about what?

So many questions. Someone should start an FAQ that includes each 'mystery' and when its answer is revealed. (If something like this exists, forgive me - this is the first time I've read anything online about Lost theories.)

In the meantime, 2008 seems like its very far away.

2007-05-29 10:54:23
138.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
137 You might try

And, having just re-watched the finale yesterday and catching up on these comments today, I'm going with the theory that the body in the casket is Jacob's. Reasoning:

1) The newspaper clipping shows a name of J___ ___antham, and I don't think you can dismiss that, as Lost is really tight on details. This limits the known candidates, based upon first names that start with J, to John Locke, James Ford (Sawyer's given name), Jin Kwon and Jacob, but you'd have to have an explanation for why the last name ends in "antham".
2) We don't know Jacob's last name
3) No one comes to the funeral/viewing, and it is in Southern California, so that pretty well rules out Jin.
4) Kate and Jack have contrasting feelings about the deceased. At present, Locke is the most ambiguous, and while Sawyer might do anything in the future to alienate Kate, it fits better with Jacob. Other corroboration:

- Jacob is neither a friend or relative of Jack.
- Jack's feeling of need to return to the island might link to his future sense of connection to Jacob.
- If it is revealed that Jacob truly does influence/direct Ben's monstrous behavior, Kate would likely develop animosity towards Jacob.
- If there is an ounce of truth to Ben's (and Locke's) foretelling of an invasion of sorts, Jacob may be compelled to leave the island, too.
- We know so little about Jacob that just about anything would fit.

So there you go. I guess we'll find this all out by June of 2010, when Lost concludes.

2007-05-29 11:02:34
139.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
135 Re: syndication:

Isn't there a 100 episode requirement/guideline? Lost won't reach 100 episodes until late in the fifth season. And that counts two-hour episodes as two.

(24 hours in the first season, 24 in the second, 23 in the third, 16 in the fourth, 16 in the fifth...)

2007-05-29 12:27:55
140.   jasonungar07
I contend that Jacks "flash forward" was really a flash back, just like all the others.

In the casket is Sawyer I think . But, again, I don't think that "ending" will happen.

My reason is cause: Jack kept saying to Kate he is sick of lying. This is why I belive that it's a flash back.

The line that sticks out the most to me in all of LOST was from season one when Desmond first met Jack and said, see ya in another lifetime brotha. I think that ties into it. The time travel, the butterfly effect.

I think desmond will be much, much more important later on.

So Jack has to get back in order to change the outcome of the future. Or he has to change the present (on the island) so that that is not the future that happens. This may happen for him, or he may make it happen. I belive what they showed us is what would happen if they get rescued as it seems they are about to. Of course they wont. And then that future will all change.

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